Jennifer Lane
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The only thing I can confidently say is to not use a sealed casket in a mausoleum crypt.
Actually, the cemetery must maintain the mausoleum so they may have some guidelines on the kind of casket that is best for that structure, so I would recommend that you talk with them about this before making your final decision.
Hi Kris,
That is really good news that they came down significantly on the price because that was absolutely the right thing for them to do. You were very smart to pursue this and ask good questions – and that played a huge role in you getting this much more proper result.
Thank you so much for the follow up to let us know! We are certainly honored to be able to help.
Jennifer
That decision is up to you – since you have researched this, you likely are aware that the functional purpose of the rubber gasket on a sealer casket is intended to prevent outside elements from getting inside the casket a little bit longer than a non-sealed casket. However, sealed caskets cost significantly more than a non-sealed casket, so that may be a consideration.
Also, since there will be no burial vault and the casket will be buried directly into the ground (keeping in mind the other environmental factors affecting decomposition), I don’t know that you can rely on the intended purpose of the seal. There is also a lot of controversy regarding the validity of the seal.
Honestly, the very best way to have peace of mind is to be well informed for the decision you are making. I would suggest that you do a google search of something like “sealed vs unsealed caskets” and review several of the articles that appear in the results. That may help you come to a decision.
You might want to research solid wood caskets. However, embalming would have helped to slow the decomposition process but it also greatly depends on the climate (dry, wet, humid, etc) soil conditions, and depth of burial.
In essence, there are a lot of factors that affect decomposition and the burial container (casket) is just one of the factors. Please do feel free to discuss your concerns with the funeral director, and I am sure if they understand what is important to you and why, then they will help you make the best choice for your peace of mind.
I am so sorry about the loss of your father and I totally understand your feelings about wanting to find a casket for him that will bring you peace of mind.
Unfortunately, there is no casket that can guarantee preservation of the body for extended length of time. Decomposition is simply a natural process that the body goes through, even when embalmed or entombed in a crypt above ground.
You are correct in that zinc-lined containers are designed for repatriation (long distance travel) as they can be hermetically sealed, but they are not intended to prevent decomposition for an extended length of time. The same is true of sealer caskets – it sounds like a good idea but the seal will break down quickly in the ground, especially when not enclosed in a burial vault.
The step-children of the deceased are usually listed following the deceased’s children by birth. Children and step-children are also listed in birth order from oldest to youngest.
For example:
Sarah is survived her children,(list the children and their spouses); as well as her step-children with (here you can name the father and then list the step-children in same manner as children.)
Then definitely speak to the funeral director to have them explain their actions.
If you are unable to get answers from the funeral home, then your next step after that may be to contact the Pennsylvania Funeral Directors Association – check the Consumer Info section on their website for resources there that may help you in this matter.
I am very sorry that your brother’s full wishes were not carried out as he planned, and clearly this is rather upsetting. This is a bit complicated and while we do not give legal advice, hopefully we can provide some information that will help to point you in the the right direction for next steps.
If your brother prepaid for a cremation, that contract likely did not include the burial fees at the cemetery, and it sounds like you paid that separately to the cemetery. That is normal, as the burial fee is a cemetery charge and not typically itemized on a prepaid funeral contract. With cremation, all states require that a cremation authorization be signed in order for the cremation to actually take place. Requirements can differ by state, but this is often the “next of kin”, so if your brother wasn’t married at the time he died, then usually his children are the next in line (and this means all of them, if he had more than 1 child.) Now, it may be the case that PA has a law that allowed your brother to name someone other his next of kin to authorize the cremation when he made his plans, as it doesn’t sound like his son was present until the day of the funeral.
However, his son is most likely still considered his next of kin (even if estranged), in order to claim the ashes. State legislation outlines much of this. Did the funeral home know you had a burial planned? They likely did not do anything wrong in allowing his son to claim the ashes, but it would definitely be worth speaking to the funeral director about this to let them explain what happened and why as a good next step.
Hi Kris,
I would recommend that you contact the cemetery where the niche in the Memory Room was purchased. Before you do that, let me explain what 2nd right of interment fees are and why they are usually charged by the cemetery. (Actually, for a niche this often known as a “2nd right of inurnment.”)
When a cemetery sells a grave space or a niche, what they are actually selling is a “right of interment”, meaning you purchase the right – most often 1 right – to inter remains in that space or niche. When there is a need or request to inter a 2nd set of remains in the same space, the cemetery does indeed charge a 2nd right of interment fee.
However, the price the funeral home gave you of $3,500 for the cemetery’s 2nd right of interment fee doesn’t sound right (it sounds rather high, especially for a niche.) Also, you said your father purchased a 2 person niche. That is known as a “companion niche” which when a companion niche is sold today, the 2nd right of inurnment is usually included (space for 2 urns = 2 inurnment rights) in the purchase price. Since he purchased it 30 years ago, though, I cannot guarantee that the 2nd interment/inurnment right was included which may be why there is a fee for it now.
For these reasons, I do believe it is in your best interest to speak directly with the cemetery about their fees.
The 2nd right of interment is not a funeral home charge, by the way. The funeral home may carry the cemetery’s charges on their contract as a matter of convenience for the family. These are shown on the funeral home’s good and services contract under “Third Party Charges” or “Cash Advance Charges” which means the funeral home does not mark up those charges at all – they simply carry the charges on their contract so the family doesn’t need to write multiple checks.
It is certainly wise for you to look into this now, and I hope this information was helpful to you.
Kind Regards,
JenniferWe are very sorry for the loss of your father – and we fully understand how strained family relationships can certainly be challenging for funerals. It is not necessary to list survivors such as children in a funeral program, as that is typically an order or service. However, you certainly can list children and if you do, here is what we recommend: Since this is your father’s funeral, we suggest that you simply stick to the order of oldest to youngest. List your father’s children from his 1st marriage, then the children from your parent’s 50-year marriage next, followed by his stepchildren from your mother’s first marriage. You could group them by “children” and “stepchildren” to be clear which people are your father’s children by birth and which were his children by marriage. If you want to further make it clear which children he had with your mother, you could preface the groups of names with “his children with XX”.
If your mother took her 2nd husband’s name, then I would list her with that name. As part of her life story that you may incorporate into her obituary, you can talk about her 60+ year marriage and how he preceded her in death. “She was married for 60 years to John Smith…”
Using “nee” is commonly for stating the maiden name before marriage, but I think you could state it that way since she was married for a such a very long time and that may be the name by which most people knew her.
First, I am very sorry for all your family has been dealing with – Alzheimer’s and Dementia are hard enough and then the added grief from losing a loved one combined with tender feelings within the family – you certainly have your hands full.
Now – to address your question, your last sentence about it being “his” obituary is most definitely the right perspective to take. We have a “rule of thumb” when it comes to difficult relationships and funerals, and that is simply “it’s not about you – it is about the deceased.” You will not be able to make everyone happy no matter how you write the obituary, but if you focus on the deceased (and not who you are going to offend), then I think you will have done the right thing and honored him. The details of the ins and outs of their relationship do not need to be mentioned at all in the obituary.
When it comes to listing survivors in the obituaries, stick to just the facts. You typically follow the order of the next of kin. (Spouse, then children, then grandchildren, siblings, etc.) Since his spouse had passed, she would be named as a predecessor in death. Then list his children in order from oldest to youngest as survivors, then step-children, then any siblings.
I hope this was helpful. We certainly extend our condolences for your loss, and wish you the best as you navigate through the uncertainty ahead.
The best way to do this is to list the 4 children from oldest to youngest in the “survived by” area of the obituary.
For example, you might state, “she is survived by her four children, Child 1 (spouse); Child 2 (spouse); Child 3 (spouse); and Child 4 (spouse).”
Or, if you wish to incorporate the father’s names, you could also state it this way:
“she is survived by her four children; her son/daughter with X, Child 1 (spouse); and her children with X, Child 2 (spouse), Child 3 (spouse), and Child 4 (spouse).”
I hope that is helpful to you. Please also accept our condolences on the recent loss of your mother.
We are very sorry for the loss of your aunt. In the area of the obituary where the “survived by” begins, I would suggest listing your aunt’s children followed by “…and their father, Joe Smith.”
Example: “She is survived by her children, Anna, Andrew, and Rene and their father, Joe Smith.”
No – Memorials folders or programs should be handed out as a mourner is entering the seating area of the chapel or venue where the service is being held. You would have a person or two at the entrance of the seating area to hand out programs. This allows people to take a seat with the program in hand so they can read it while waiting for the service to begin.
